Shadow of Anti-Semitism over Ukraine's Disputed Election

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Shadow of Anti-Semitism over Ukraine's Disputed Election
The British Helsinki Human Rights Group ^ | 24 November 2004

Posted on 11/25/2004 8:56:53 AM PST by DTA

Shadow of Anti-Semitism over Ukraine's Disputed Election

Western television viewers and newspaper readers are being fed on a diet of propaganda about the current crisis in Ukraine. The orange flags and uniforms of the opposition fill our screens and decorate the front pages. “People power” and Western-orientated democrats are on the march against evil ex-communist oligarchs. Good is battling against evil for the soul of Ukraine.

Sadly it is not so simple. Western media and governments may have edited out the manifestations of extreme nationalism and anti-Semitism which disfigure the Ukrainian opposition’s rabble-rousing but history will record that in the run up to the disputed presidential elections, key opposition leaders, including Viktor Yushchenko, Julia Timoshenko and Alexander Moroz, defended anti-Semitic publications and accepted the backing of neo-Nazi groups as well as US and EU and so-called “civic society” NGOs. Nor were the anti-Semtic apologetics of the Ukrainian opposition unknown to key OSCE observers and EU parliamentarians who nonetheless ignored the dark shadow across Yushchenko’s campaign preferring instead to abuse his rival.

A key media outlet which has backed Viktor Yushchenko’s long march on the Ukrainian presidency published an extraordinary anti-Semitic rant in 2003 which claimed that 400,000 Jews fought alongside Hitler’s invading army in 1941!

Inserted as an advertising feature, “Jews in Ukraine Today: Reality Without Myths," appeared in Silski visti (Village News). The newspaper was one of the largest in Ukraine with a circulation of around 500,000. It was a prominent backer of Viktor Yushchenko and his Our Ukraine party.

In late 2003, Alexander Shlayen, the head of the Ukrainian Anti-Fascist Committee and a prominent member of the post-Holocaust Jewish community in Ukraine, initiated a prosecution of the newspaper, Silski visti for promoting inter-ethnic discord in the country which was the site of the infamous Babi Yar massacre along with countless other Nazi atrocities against Jews.

On 28th January, 2004, the court ordered the closing of the newspaper but it defied the ruling with the vocal backing of the opposition Our Ukraine party and its allies. In August, 2004, Alexander Shlaven died suddenly and unexpectedly.

In an interview with JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency) , the paper's editor, Vasily Gruzin, defended the newspaper's decision to publish the piece:

"Although we published the Yaremenko article as a paid advertisement and not as a position we ourselves endorsed, I happen to believe the figure of 400,000 Jews taking part in the German invasion of the Ukraine is not far from the truth," he said.
"I personally have nothing against common Jews, but rather against a small group of Jewish oligarchs who control Ukraine both economically and politically. I believe the point of Zionism today is Jewish control of the world, and we see this process at work in Ukraine today."

Shortly after this anti-Semitic diatribe by Yaremenko, Victor Yuschenko – who our media always apostrophises as “the pro-Western presidential candidate” and who enjoys the open support of the Bush administration -- and another prominent opposition leader, energy oligarch Yulia Timoshenko and Alexander Moroz of the Socialist Party issued a statement headed "Hands Off Silski Visti”! [http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/092104JTA_Ukraine.shtml]

Mr Moroz has been a prominent figure on the opposition in tribune in Kiev and as recently as 21st September, 2004, he insisted,

“"I have defended Silski Visti and will continue to do so," Moroz said. "I personally think the argument of the author of the article, Vasily Yaremenko, citing 400,000 Jews in the S.S. is incorrect, but I am not in a position to know all the facts." [http://www.ncsj.org/AuxPages/092104JTA_Ukraine.shtml ]

What kind of ally of the West needs to learn more about the Nazis to refute Yaremenko’s claims about a Jewish-Nazi alliance? Yet this is the sort of politician who gets unconditional backing in Washington and Brussels.

One of the so-called “independent” election observers whose denunciation of the Yanukovich camp for fraud has been a central part of the propaganda battle is the British Conservative MEP, Charles Tannock, who has appeared in recent days on opposition platforms egging on the protestors. Before the elections Mr Tannock wrote several articles openly backing Viktor Yushchenko’s candidacy, but Mr Tannock’s best known intervention in Ukrainian politics before the disputed presidential election was his criticism of the courts for banning the anti-Semitic newspaper, Silski visti.

Like Viktor Yushchenko and Julia Timoshenko, MEP Tannock condemned the ban saying in an interview in the Our Ukraine party newspaper on 12th March, 2004: “the closure of the newspaper went a step far too far” according to Mr Tannock’s own web-page. He goes on to admit that as a backer of Our Ukraine “I don’t think it does your party any good to be associated with extreme [emphasis added] anti-Semitic articles”! [http://www.charlestannock.com/pressarticle.asp?ID=360 ]

Sadly the Silski visti affair was not unique.

In western Ukraine in particular (as in Britain and North America) there is an aging cohort of elderly veterans of the Waffen SS’s Galician division. They are anxious to revise their country’s history and re-habilitate their wartime service on behalf of the Third Reich. In Ukraine these old Nazis parade protesting their patriotism and demanding equal rights with Red Army veterans. A younger more aggressive and openly racist and neo-Nazi cohort of historical revisionists has also appeared. They have their “intellectual” spokesmen whose anti-Semitic and white supremacist writings have produced scandal in Kiev not only in Silski visti.

In western Ukrainian towns like Ivano-Frankivsk, the uniformed bully-boys of the UNSO movement, so-called Ukrainian Self-Defence forces, act as enforcers for Our Ukraine in effect. Mr Yushchenko scored well over 90% in western regions like Ivano-Frankivsk – results at least as improbable as any for Mr Yanukevich in the east of the country. How much does Mr Yushchenko’s near unanimous support in western towns depend on the storm troopers of the Ukrainian new right?

It is shocking that any link could exist between such neo-Nazi muscle men and their propagandists and politicians usually presented in the Anglo-American media as the harbingers of Western democracy and universal humanitarian values in Ukraine. Even more bizarre than the defence of the right of an anti-Semite to disseminate his wares by “pro-Western” Ukrainian politicians like Yushchenko, Julia Timoshenko and Aleksandr Moroz is the fact that Mr. Yushchenko’s candidacy for president of Ukraine is openly backed by the famous American billionaire philanthropist, George Soros, himself a survivor of the Holocaust.

Although ten years ago in 1994, Mr. Soros put his influence and money behind Leonid Kuchma, the democracy-promoting philanthropist has since turned against the outgoing Ukrainian President and his preferred successor as candidate for president, Viktor Yanukevich. As far back as 1st March, 2001, the American billionaire had written an editorial page piece in the Financial Times making his support for Yushchenko clear when he demanded , “If Mr Kuchma cares about Ukraine’s survival as an independent democratic state, he must take responsibility for his actions and hand over duties to the prime minister, [i.e. Yushchenko] the constitutionally designated successor, pending the results of the investigation. The West must take a clear position, denouncing Mr Kuchma’s behavior and his actions. There is no way for the international community to continue to do business with Mr Kuchma until an impartial investigation [into the Gongadze murder case] has been completed and those responsible are held to account.”

Mr. Soros’s concern for human rights and due process does him credit, but his tone does not suggest the assumption of innocence! Moreover at precisely the same time in early, 2001, his own local Ukrainian foundation was supporting media which were the antithesis of democratic decency. In Germany, Neue Solidarität’s Roman Bessonov reported from the western Ukrainian city of Lvov on 4th April, 2001, that a Soros-funded “Renaissance” foundation was backing the nationalist monthly, “Derzhanist” ((“Independent Statehood”) commenting “Whoever reads it would conclude that Kiev is the Fourth Rome and that Babi Yar wasn’t where umpteen thousands of Jews were murdered by the Nazi SS but rather where the Chekists murdered Ukrainian patriots.” [See http://www.bueso.de/nrw/Aktuelles/ukraine.htm ]

In Ukraine, in the presidential elections, Soros’s people back Yushchenko but he is also supported by Andrei Shkil’s ultra-nationalist UNSO. Vyacheslav Likhachev of the European-Asian Jewish Congress noted the unsettling links between Mr Soros’s preferred candidate for Ukrainian president, Yuschchenko, and the neo-Nazis there after the 2002 parliamentary elections

“the former leader of the UNA-UNSD Andry Shkil was elected to the parliament in a single-ticket election in the Lviv region, with the support of Our Ukraine, led by Viktor Yuschenko (Victor Yuschenko is a former prime minister and one of the quite probable presidential candidates). At the time elections were held, the leader of the nationalists had been in jail for a year, accused of organizing mass anti-government riots. Having been elected, Andry Shkil was granted immunity to criminal prosecution. Thus, the moderate national-democrats form unions with the radicals.”

[See Vyacheslav Likhachev, “Anti-Semtism in Ukraine” @ http://www.eajc.org/program_art_e.php?id=10 ]

Some idea of Mr Shkil’s pro-Western reform-minded ideas is available on his web-page: ““Inside, an article appeared, entitled “Nationalism in the World: Past, Present, Future,” written by Andriy Shkil’, editor-in-chief of Natsionalist, chairman of the Dontsov Supporters’ Club, and head of the Lviv branch of UNA. Mostly devoted to the New Right, it also mentioned their precursors, including Gobineau, and “his worthy student Walter Darre, who developed the idea of artificial selection [eugenics] to improve the human race.” Mein Kampf and its author (whose name is not given) are praised for “re-examining these ideas on the highest level.” Several of Darre’s ideas are applied to the Ukrainian situation: Christianity’s mistaken view of the equality of human beings, the necessity for the revival of paganism as an essential spiritual feature of the nation and as a precondition for the creation of a new national elite, with eugenics as a means of cleansing and renewing the people.Thus, the UNA values the experience of the European Right, and other radical regardless of their political orientation.”

[See http://www.una-unso.org/av/mainview.asp?TT_id=17&TX_id=402]

Belatedly in the run-up to October’s presidential elections, Mr Yuschchenko tried to distance himself from radical nationalists like Shkil _ at least in the English-language version of his web-page. [ See “Yushchenko advises «fascist thugs» to support Yanukovych” 15:25, 2 July 2004 @ http://www.yuschenko.com.ua/eng/present/News/838/] But they were not prepared to denounce him: “It was reported that last Saturday in Kyiv there was a «parade» of the «UNA-UNSO» party that has nothing in common with the «UNA-UNSO» organization headed by Andriy Shkil, YTB member. During this meeting Kovalenko’s «UNA-UNSO» declared the support of Yushchenko with the fascist signs, «SSS» symbols and gestures in Hitlerite manner.”! [See http://www.una-unso.org/av/mainview.asp?TT_id=17&TX_id=402 ]

With friends like these Mr Yushchenko may feel he has all the People Power he needs to seize the presidency, but should OSCE observers, European parliamentarians, Colin Powell and George W. Bush be undiluted in endorsing a candidate with backing from neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers? What kind of West is being created if the Euro-Atlantic elite openly endorses a president of Ukraine whose domestic supporters at senior levels as well as at street level don’t know who invaded the country in 1941 and defend publications which say Jews were the culprits?
TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: ANTISEMITISM; HOLOCAUST; SOROS; UKRAINE; WAFFENSS; YUSHCHENKO
background info MSM chose to ignore
1 posted on 11/25/2004 8:56:53 AM PST by DTA
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To: SJackson; dennisw; Alouette

major anti-semitism ping

2 posted on 11/25/2004 8:57:34 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: cornelis; Destro; MarMema; FairOpinion; cicero's_son; Steel Wolf; joan; Jane_N; Doctor13; ...

SOROS ping

3 posted on 11/25/2004 9:02:39 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: DTA

I was hoping someone would eventually bring to light the anti-semitism of the Luschenko party. I fear for the Jews in Ukraine after he barges his way into power.

4 posted on 11/25/2004 9:05:07 AM PST by MarMema
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To: DTA; 1bigdictator; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2sheep; 7.62 x 51mm; A Jovial Cad; ...
Ukraine's Jews split in vote

Kiev

Ukrainian Jews mirrored the rest of the country in this week's presidential elections – both in how they voted and in their strong reactions to the controversial results.

Many Jews, pleased with the status quo, supported Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, who was backed by the government in Sunday's runoff vote.

"I voted for stability in Ukrainian society," said Pyotr Rashkovsky, head of the Association of Jewish Communities of Small Towns of Ukraine, which unites Jewish groups in a dozen former shtetls in the central part of the country. "I know that most Jews in my region also supported Yanukovich."

But others echoed the sentiments of the estimated 100,000 to 200,000 Ukrainian voters who took to the streets of Kiev on Monday after Yanukovich was declared the winner over the liberal opposition candidate, Viktor Yuschenko.

"After the total falsification of the results of the presidential elections, the people demand to announce Yuschenko the next president," said Eduard Gurvitz, a Jewish member of Parliament and former mayor of Odessa who supported Yuschenko.

The choice of the new president may prove crucial for Western and Russian strategic interests in Eastern Europe.

According to the Central Elections Commission, Yanukovich won about 49.4 percent of the vote and Yuschenko received 46.7 percent. In the first round of voting on October 31, Yuschenko led Yanukovich by less than 1 percentage point, according to the official results.

Many Jews are believed to have voted for Yuschenko and generally followed the nationwide pattern, with the younger, urban and better-educated voters favoring the opposition.

But with no valid data in existence, some observers believe probably as many, if not the majority, of Jews still backed Yanukovich – partly because they feared the rising Ukrainian nationalist sentiment.

Many Jews were afraid of speaking openly about their choice even after casting their vote, as were many Ukrainians. Up to 40 percent of respondents refused to talk to those conducting exit polls, local media reported.

"People are afraid of the authorities," one Jewish voter in Kiev said. "And many Jews may have found themselves even in a more difficult situation knowing that many wealthy Jews sponsoring Jewish community programs support the authorities and particularly Yanukovich."

Indeed, some of the leading domestic sponsors of Jewish life in the region backed Yanukovich, reflecting the fact that many Jewish big business owners have played a prominent role in Ukraine's economy during the current regime.

For many of Ukraine's Jews, estimated at between 250,000 and 500,000, the election was a difficult choice between the liberal Yuschenko, who in the past has allied himself with politicians openly expressing anti-Semitic views, and Yanukovich, who has displayed authoritarian traits but has promised stability, which appeals to Jews in a region where instability has historically led to anti-Semitism.

Some Jews said they believed Yanukovich would be better at fighting anti-Semitism and xenophobia – partly because of his past statements on Jews and Israel, and partly because of Yuschenko's mixed record on Jewish issues.

"I'm sure that Yanukovich is able to prevent" radical nationalism from developing in Ukraine, said Aleksandr Naiman, a leader of the Ukrainian Anti-Defamation League, a group not related to ADL.

At the end of September, Yanukovich visited Israel. He met with President Moshe Katsav and members of the Ukrainian community to discuss the issues of dual citizenship and payment of pensions to Jewish pensioners from Ukraine now living in Israel.

Only 3,106 out of nearly 40,000 eligible Ukrainian voters in Israel cast their ballots.
5 posted on 11/25/2004 9:07:46 AM PST by Alouette (9 children, 12 grandchildren, 0 abortions.)
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To: DTA

just who is george soros?

6 posted on 11/25/2004 9:08:02 AM PST by ken21 (against the democrat plantation.)
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To: ken21

The forerunner to the antichrist. Do an FR search for Soros to learn a lot. He is a billionaire from Hungary who likes to manipulate markets to make money, and then he spends his money supporting abortion and euthanasia all over the world.

7 posted on 11/25/2004 9:10:39 AM PST by MarMema
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To: DTA
How many Jews now live in the Ukraine and what is the situation for them now? How antisemitic is their world?

And is Yushchenko antisemitic, or does he just accept money from strange bedfellows?
8 posted on 11/25/2004 9:11:32 AM PST by Yaelle
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To: ken21
Set aside a day or two for reading
9 posted on 11/25/2004 9:12:13 AM PST by MarMema
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To: DTA

"Western television viewers and newspaper readers are being fed on a diet of propaganda about the current crisis in Ukraine. The orange flags and uniforms of the opposition fill our screens and decorate the front pages. “People power” and Western-orientated democrats are on the march against evil ex-communist oligarchs. Good is battling against evil for the soul of Ukraine.

Sadly it is not so simple. "

Thanks for the ping.

That is exactly the point, that things aren't so simple, in fact are very complex, and the media is not giving us all the information.

They want Yushchenko elected, just as much as they wanted Kerry elected. That should make people stop and think.

The media is also letting people believe that virtually all Ukrainians are supporting the opposition, and Yanukovich is forced on them. I only saw a couple of articles which mentioned that there actually have been years of strife between the Eastern and Western half of Ukraine, where Yanukovich is supported mostly in the East, and Yushchenko by the Western half.

"Borys says simply that it is "not clear what Yushchenko might bring to the country" and adds that the economy has been doing well under the current prime minister's stewardship.

"It is insulting for me that they consider me to be a silly animal. I wholeheartedly support Viktor Fiodorovych Yanukovych. To begin with, I know him. He is very decent, good, powerful -- a man with strong will power. I feel insulted when they say that nobody voted for him. I am from Kyiv. I voted for him, my family did, my children did, grandchildren did, and my mother did. Why they are insulting me?" Svitlana says.

"Me, as a human being, as a woman feel that Yushchenko is not a leader. And Yanukovych is the leader of our country," Svitlana says. "

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1288359/posts

10 posted on 11/25/2004 9:14:20 AM PST by FairOpinion (Happy Thanksgiving!)
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To: MarMema

thanks.

ask, + you shall receive!

11 posted on 11/25/2004 9:14:47 AM PST by ken21 (against the democrat plantation.)
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To: Yaelle; cicero's_son
Anti-Semitism in Ukrainian media is up, and its acceptance is worrying Jews
12 posted on 11/25/2004 9:16:08 AM PST by MarMema
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To: FairOpinion
That should make people stop and think.

Same tactics too. Remember the calls for riots if Bush won?
13 posted on 11/25/2004 9:18:07 AM PST by MarMema
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To: malakhi

ping

14 posted on 11/25/2004 9:18:47 AM PST by MarMema
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To: DTA

Helsinki Human Rights Group ?

I'm sure they claim that Bush is a fascist.

15 posted on 11/25/2004 9:20:06 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: GOP_1900AD; TapTheSource

Let's hear from you.

16 posted on 11/25/2004 9:20:31 AM PST by MarMema
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To: Grzegorz 246
I'm sure they claim that Bush is a fascist.

Guess again
17 posted on 11/25/2004 9:23:47 AM PST by MarMema
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To: FairOpinion

In war things are topsy turvy and one can best only trust a spy to be a spy. One clue that should give pause is the consent for the popular dispute by Lech Walesa and Vaclav Havel as well as the dissent of the U.S. and Canadian governments against the corruption in the elections. Soros is a bogeymen who may buy votes, but I really don't think that this is what these campers are about.

18 posted on 11/25/2004 9:24:23 AM PST by cornelis
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To: DTA

Screw Yushchenko and screw Soros.

19 posted on 11/25/2004 9:26:44 AM PST by Rome2000 (Democrats are perverted socialist crooks)
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To: Rome2000; nw_arizona_granny

Best post of the day.

20 posted on 11/25/2004 9:27:46 AM PST by MarMema
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To: MarMema
Thanks for the ping. I've been reading some of these threads, but I've refrained from comment because there is so much propaganda it's hard to tell what's really going on. The impression I have formed is that neither side is particularly savory. Ultimately, I'd like the outcome to truly reflect the wishes of the Ukrainian majority. Right now, it is impossible for me to determine what that really is.
21 posted on 11/25/2004 9:37:21 AM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi

Walesa coming to meditate stand-off Nov 24, 19:49

WARSAW (AP) - Lech Walesa, the founder of Poland's Solidarity movement, will travel to Ukraine to act as a mediator in the standoff over the disputed presidential elections there, his son said Nov. 24.

Walesa, a Nobel Peace Prize laureate, had said Nov. 23 that he received a letter from Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko seeking his help in negotiating a resolution to the crisis.

Jaroslaw Walesa told The Associated Press that Walesa would leave for Kyiv early Nov. 25 for a one-day visit.

Lech Walesa told Polish news agency PAP that he wanted to meet outgoing President Leonid Kuchma and election rivals Yushchenko and Kremlin-backed Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych.

"I would like to meet each of them" and tell them "I don't want to interfere with your affairs, but as a neighbor I would like to help as much as I can," Walesa told PAP.

He said he wanted to avoid a situation similar to Poland's 1981 martial law crackdown against the Solidarity labor movement, which he called a "crime on the Polish nation" that "divided the nation, killed determination and drove many people from the country."

Walesa launched the Solidarity movement in 1980, rallying workers as part of eastern Europe's first free labor union. He presided over round-table talks in 1989 that led to the peaceful end of communism in Poland, and was elected president the following year.

kyivpost.com
22 posted on 11/25/2004 9:41:17 AM PST by cornelis
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To: Calpernia; Velveeta

Ping

23 posted on 11/25/2004 9:44:55 AM PST by nw_arizona_granny (Today, please pray for God's miracle, we are not going to make it without him.)
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To: MarMema

Very interesting, especially the picture of Soviet "Pioneers".

24 posted on 11/25/2004 10:01:06 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: GarySpFc

ping

25 posted on 11/25/2004 10:18:49 AM PST by MarMema
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To: DTA

Jews in Ukraines have suffered horribly a lot under Communism. They were among the 7 million killed in the famine in the 1930s. Nikita Khruschev had almost every synangogue shut down and some were allowed to operated under constant surveillance. Now, they are victims again.

26 posted on 11/25/2004 10:20:27 AM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud rabbit hater and killer)
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To: Grzegorz 246
PLEASE NOTE that the so called British Helsinki Group is NOT affiliated with the IHF

The BHHRG is merely a group of old Europe leftists who are trading on the legitimacy of the actual Helsinki Federation groups.

The fact that they also go under the name "OSCE Watch", is something of a dead giveaway as to where their actual agenda lies.

Contrary to the condemnations issued by the team of professional politicians and diplomats deployed by the OSCE mainly from NATO and EU states, the BHHRG observers did not see evidence of government-organized fraud nor of suppression of opposition media.
...
In spite of concerns, BHHRG finds no reason to believe that the final result of the 2004 presidential election in Ukraine was not generally representative of genuine popular will.

Bunch o' f'n morons.
27 posted on 11/25/2004 10:55:46 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: ken21

Is Soros a Neo-Nazi?

28 posted on 11/25/2004 10:56:37 AM PST by MonitorMaid (Promise Keeper)
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To: MonitorMaid
>>>>>>Is Soros a Neo-Nazi?<<<<<

No. Soros is Old Nazi. In 1944 he was a member of the Hungarian Nazi "Arrow Crosses". It was at the time when hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews were being exterminated. Soros confirmed this himself in a book written by his father Tivador.
29 posted on 11/25/2004 11:06:50 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: MonitorMaid

being jewish, i hope soros is not a nazi.

i've wondered if he isn't one world goverment man.

if so, he's got problems. many in the world hate him.

the indonesians don't like him.

30 posted on 11/25/2004 11:07:19 AM PST by ken21 (against the democrat plantation.)
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To: Hoplite
>>>>>>Bunch o' f'n morons.<<<<<

Seems you got quite upset they exposed anti-semitism of your Nazi pals. Get over it. Nazism was defeated in 1945.
31 posted on 11/25/2004 11:13:43 AM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: ken21
"being jewish, i hope soros is not a nazi."

Soros is a Moscow puppet. He is busy destabilizing Western democracies in the interests of long-range Sino-Soviet strategy.
32 posted on 11/25/2004 11:30:04 AM PST by TapTheSource
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To: ken21; DTA

Thanks for the reply. I've heard the Soros name tossed around a bit during the election but was unsure of his agenda or group affiliation. I had figured him for either a commie or neo-nazi. I'm surprised to find out he is Jewish. He sounds like a troublemaker, whatever he is. sheesh.

33 posted on 11/25/2004 11:31:44 AM PST by MonitorMaid (Promise Keeper)
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To: MonitorMaid

Soros is a bugbear.

34 posted on 11/25/2004 11:32:08 AM PST by cornelis
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To: DTA
Check yourself, DTA.

Soros is a Hungarian Jew.

By the by, I hear that OTPOR is helping the Ukrainian opposition - so are they Nazis now too?

Lol.
35 posted on 11/25/2004 11:32:40 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: DTA; Alouette
This is one of those situations that it's almost impossible to comment on or know what is really happening. I don't doubt that there are extremely sinister and unsavory individuals and movements on both sides.

Since I define Nazism by its opposition to HaShem's people and Communism by its opposition to belief in HaShem, I am not one of those people who thinks one is "preferable" to the other. Anti-Semitism isn't an ethnic prejudice but a theological heresy that rejects the True G-d and His Chosen People.

May Mashiach HaMelekh be revealed to our troubled world soon, speedily, and in our day!
36 posted on 11/25/2004 11:34:41 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (G-D'S TORAH defines conservatism.)
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To: Hoplite
Soros is a Hungarian Jew.

His name is Yiddish for "trouble" (tsuros)
37 posted on 11/25/2004 11:37:11 AM PST by Alouette (9 children, 12 grandchildren, 0 abortions.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
This is one of those situations that it's almost impossible to comment on or know what is really happening.

No, what's happened is election fraud.
38 posted on 11/25/2004 11:41:14 AM PST by cornelis
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To: Alouette
Hence the kvetching?
39 posted on 11/25/2004 11:47:27 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: Zionist Conspirator

The only choice - if such a thing were possible - is a "Sophie's Choice" type scenario - Nazis will kill you outright for being Jewish - even if not a religous Jew - they are after eradicating the "blood". The Communists just may leave you alive if your are not religous and are not cought up in a purge of some sort.

40 posted on 11/25/2004 12:35:12 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Destro

All too true.

41 posted on 11/25/2004 12:36:16 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (G-D'S TORAH defines conservatism.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
This "Sophie's Choice" applies to other groups as well. The Nazis of course would go after you if you were of any of what they considered sub-human "races" - some selected for outright extermination and others for perpetual slavery. The Communists at least paid lips service to the equality of all - while they starved and overworked millions to death.
42 posted on 11/25/2004 12:39:58 PM PST by Destro (Know your enemy! Help fight Islamic terrorism by visiting johnathangaltfilms.com and jihadwatch.org)
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To: Alouette

Just picked up a copy of the book BABI YAR, by Anatoly Kuznetsov at our library for 25 cents. They always seem to be getting rid of the best history books, and the timing is interesting.

43 posted on 11/25/2004 1:55:26 PM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth; Alouette
>>>> They always seem to be getting rid of the best history books, and the timing is interesting.<<<<

Michael Moore deliberatelly chose the title Fahrenheit 911 to draw attention away from Truffaut's massterpiece interpretation of Ray Bradburry's Fahrenheit 451

Liberals DO destroy books. Many exist in print only, without any electronic reference. In 10 years from now, the knowledge of paper version will be equivalent to oral copy.

We have to start making lists of recommended books and making electronic references to them.

Thank you for mentioning this one.
44 posted on 11/25/2004 6:24:05 PM PST by DTA (proud pajamista)
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To: Alouette

BTT!!!

45 posted on 11/26/2004 1:46:03 AM PST by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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To: DTA
We have to start making lists of recommended books and making electronic references to them.

I'm currently working on a project scanning and digitizing microfilm of 19th-century publications.

The Occident and American Jewish Advocate
46 posted on 11/26/2004 1:46:06 AM PST by Alouette (9 children, 12 grandchildren, 0 abortions.)
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To: MarMema

Anti Semitism has reared its ugly head across a broad swath of Eurasia. When we hung the Nazi leaders at Nuremberg, the message was mostly felt in the US and in Western Europe. The further east (and south) one goes, the less the message is part of people's psyche. That is why there is a resurgence of both the fradulent Protocols of the Elders of Zion in the Middle East and Mein Kampf through out the non Western World. Of note, some of the worst anti Semitism I have observed is in pan Sinic groups. But Islamists and Arab Pan Nationalists are in stiff competition with them in this regard. Finally, another very dangerous group is the National Bolsheviks, a resurgence of an older concept developed by people who had been Communists around 1900 but later gravitated toward the Nazi way of thinking. Whereas, the early 1900s version of it was mostly found in France, Germany and the Benelux countries, the current version appears to be focused in the former Soviet Union and Germany. The National Bolsheviks, notably, have ties with Spartacus in Canada and nearly every neo Nazi and major anarchist group in the US and UK. And some folks thought I was kidding when I wrote, a few months ago, that I am a Nazi hunter. :=)

47 posted on 11/30/2004 12:22:08 PM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Hoplite

That bears repeating:

PLEASE NOTE that the so called British Helsinki Group is NOT affiliated with the IHF
The BHHRG is merely a group of old Europe leftists who are trading on the legitimacy of the actual Helsinki Federation groups.

The fact that they also go under the name "OSCE Watch", is something of a dead giveaway as to where their actual agenda lies.

Contrary to the condemnations issued by the team of professional politicians and diplomats deployed by the OSCE mainly from NATO and EU states, the BHHRG observers did not see evidence of government-organized fraud nor of suppression of opposition media.
...
In spite of concerns, BHHRG finds no reason to believe that the final result of the 2004 presidential election in Ukraine was not generally representative of genuine popular will.

48 posted on 11/30/2004 12:27:34 PM PST by Agog
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